Curse

Hippie · May 04, 2005, 05:57 AM // 05:57

I would like to see some uber items but not dropped as loot, rather as a reward from a long epic quest that would require getting some help from your guild to acheive it.

Manderlock · May 04, 2005, 06:07 AM // 06:07

NO uber items period, if you *need* them this is not the game for you.

Any *epic* quest would be farmed. Then the item would still be uber, but every top guild would have it on everyone of their members.

Garrett · May 04, 2005, 06:08 AM // 06:08

All I can say is that if you like something like new items to strive for, perhaps this isn't the game for you (and I don't mean that in an offensive tone, there are plenty of great PvE games out there.). There will be new content however, with the up-coming expansions. Personally all I need is balanced Pvp. I played Pvp in Neverwinter Nights ( and that was a very PvE ish game) for quite awhile, never got tired of it.

Exion · May 04, 2005, 12:08 PM // 12:08

I'm glad there arn't "uber" unbalanced items in GW,in WoW I felt almost forced to play over items. I can play GW whenever I feel like it,finding a rune every so often is better than clearing instaces amillion times.

Bone_White_Haze · May 04, 2005, 01:05 PM // 13:05

>you want something special to sperate someone who's played for 6 months rather than 6 days.

What seperates them is skill.

In other games, items are overpowered to the point where your actual character skills matter less than the goodies you have. The way to 'get ahead' and 'win' is to grind, and grind, and grind, and grind...the most powerful players are simply those with the most leisure time. Not the best players, necessarily, or the most able or the most skillful--just the ones with the most time to spend online.

In this game, the player's skill and the character's abilities are more important than the lewt. Ever play an FRP where everyone's issued IDENTICAL gear? That's the extreme, but it's a very interesting extreme--you know that the only thing that can possibly make you 'better' than your opponent is to be more intelligent and have better game skills.

It's the ideal GW is shooting for. A thinking man's game, rather than a grinding man's game. The phat lewt will (at best) give you a very minor edge, it will not give you victory via grinding. Someone who's played for three years is on the same playing field as someone who's played for three months--edge in experience, perhaps, but it's still brain vs. brain.

It's a different playstyle. If you need to play with the training wheels on, there's always WoW.

DigitalX · May 04, 2005, 01:19 PM // 13:19

You know how guild wars said they got rid of the bad thing about level requirements w/ items? that was another thing to, people would strive to fit the requirements for a cool looking/strong weapon/armor when they found it, but since their arent level requirements (there are some requirements but not really high) there isnt much to strive for, just to get to lvl 20, and finish all the missions... and when i mean requirements, i mean u cant use the weapon/armor at all till you fit/surpass them

Bone_White_Haze · May 04, 2005, 01:19 PM // 13:19

>So, my prediction is that if there's no significant changes in item drops (they definately need to be rare drops and not something that you can get every day) or no significant lvl cap change, this game which has a lot of potential, will go away within 8 months to a year, tops.

My prediction is the players who desire such things will go away in 8 months to a year, tops. Leaving a stronger design that stands on it's own merits to attract the players who think a little deeper than "must ding, must get lewt".

It is not your average MMO. Looking at the front page articles for five minutes would have told you that. Why did you buy it?

What we'll be fighting off now (for the next 8 months to a year) is the forces of mediocrity attempting to turn it into yet another average MMO. Ideally, we should be looking for ways to make the game *more* unique, not same-same.

Lank · May 04, 2005, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Exactly. There are plenty of options for those people who want PvE monster games with "phat loot." This is a different game. I predict that in a couple months, about 10-30% of the community will drop off, leaving behind a much better core population.

I really hate to have this kind of mentality, but this game is for those of us who like to think, and prefer strategy to time consumption. This game was made for us, and I trust NCsoft to never do silly things like put in crazy uber items.

Maybe I could see raising the level cap. That could be reasonable, I guess, so long as they put in more arenas for it. Uber items will never be part of the game so long as the fans have anything to say about it, because quite frankly, we like our games balanced.

Bone_White_Haze · May 04, 2005, 02:03 PM // 14:03

There's also the added advantage of GW never having more than a relatively small an ineffectual items-for-cash market, instead of the "buy your way to the top" some of those other MMOs have.

City of Heros has three dealable commodities, Characters, Hami-Os and Influence--as a result of a design where most of the 'lewt' is transitory, it wears out in a few levels, and influence is plentiful and easy to obtain past the midpoint of the game. None of the things that CAN be sold make a lot of money for the speculators, I imagine, so companies like IGE pay the game little attention.

A game where the 'rares' aren't uber-awesome game-breakers, and available to anyone who can cap 20 in a week or two (and you can create a L20 from scratch!), will likewise attract little attention from professional farmers. Gold doesn't seem all that marketable either, plentiful supply to meet your character's needs. So I suspect GW won't be a huge moneymaker for IGE either.

Disappointing to the people who enjoy item speculating, I suppose, but there are other games where they can scratch that itch.

Moskel · May 04, 2005, 03:44 PM // 15:44

I would have to disagree that just because we don't have a level cap of 1,000,000 and 6,000,000 unique items to try and farm that the game won't last. Lets take a look at Unreal Tournament and CS....

Level Cap: 1 (ie. you don't have any)
Unique Items: 0 (uhh you don't even get to save equipment)
Years being played: A darn long time and still going strong

What makes a game last is the quality of the gameplay, not the need to work towards something, as long as the working towards something is fun people will do it. The moment it stops being fun people will stop, this is a hobby for everyone, its not like by farming the super-uber-noober sword gets you a promotion or changes your life (if it does step away from the keyboard and re-evaluate your priorities a bit).

GW has done a great job of blending RTS, FPS, and RPG together into a single game and because of its current uniqueness in the marketplace it should stand on its own for a long time to come.

Oni No Arashi · May 04, 2005, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Hmm, he said after 3 to 4 months when the initial feelings have worn off and it's not fun anymore? Uhm... then a new chapter and update comes out... guess what, new items and other things abound.

As for Rare Items: they're there, but there isn't anything that's going to make you use them to kill your enemies in one hit. That's no fun anyway. "Oh no, it's a Dragon, an epic fire breating lizard who can destroy whole cities in one blast from his breath and beat of his wings!"... "Don't worry, I've bot my UBER bow of slaying anything"... BLAM... "He killed the dragon!"...

Yeah, really a lot of fun there.

As for the level cap? Why should it be raised when levels 1-19 are the TUTORIAL to buil up and learn your character to gain the SKILL needed to play it effectivly?

I just love how people try to equate this game to others that can't be.

I hated all the others, tried them, but hated them as a long standing table top RPG player.

Now I tried GW (mostly due to no monthly fees, can't understand playing monthly fees for a game that I already paid for) and I find GW to be closer to real rpg's that I've played for years, almost decades now. Why? Becuase everyone gets a chance to be the hero (it's all instanced, so for that time your party is the hero's of the world) and everyone has a fair chance to do the tasks, and it all is a challenge.

In the previous example, GW would end with arrows sticking out of everywhere on said town destroying dragon, it's wings torn and tattered by the conflict, and the party of how ever many would be bloodied, maybe one or two dead from the onslaught, and the victory would be more rewarding in it's own right then just *Blam* and it's dead.

For they would have fought and almost lost their lives to save the town, not just flexed like some Pro wrestler and then hit the thing once and then turn and ask for an ale as they smiled to the camera.

It's what endears both me and my wife to the game... it's a real challenge, and you have to learn what works against what (she changes her skills about every mission to compensate, especially if she tried it and they didn't pass it. Figure out what works and give it a try).

It should never come down to... my weapon is going to win the mission for me instead of my guile, cunning, skill and the fact that I've got 5 others with me who are watching my back and each others.

primal98 · May 04, 2005, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Hmm we can all go around saying "Skil skill skill, startegy, that's all that matters", but well come on, cool items are cool items. I for one am getting very tired of using 99% of my items for scrap materials.... Now I'm not anywhere far in the game(I just finished the Sarnia ruins... well some sort of ruins after the attack on ascalon)... but still, identifying items is no thrill... it's like "woo hoo, +1 damage vs a giant". I have never played MMORPG's up till now, but before this I played Neverwinter Nigths, and before that Diablo. NwN had a bunch of REALLY cool weapons same with Diablo (even early on i t had "special" armors and different weapons enemies would drop). Sure GW is awesome, but going on quests to get a a plain hammer o.O A little spicing up of the game could make it 1000000000000000000000x more awesome. We don't need any super uber ultimate weapons, but a little variaty to them

Make the axe's more exciting, maybe throw in some big ass two handed swords. Maybe, rare items could glow? I mean little things like that make games so much more fun and interesting

~prime

Ashock · May 04, 2005, 06:25 PM // 18:25

You guys are either missed my point completely, or you simply can't comprehend how a week old game can get stale without changes. "Sure, it's only a week old, but it's perfect as is and so much more cerebral than other games of this nature!" Ok, you'll remember this thread several months from now.

Only the BG series can be restarted and replayed over and over again, with almost no variety from game to game.

Anyway, further posts on this topic are a waste of time for me at this time.

Darkseed · May 04, 2005, 07:45 PM // 19:45

I believe some of you miss the point of the game. It's a skill/strategy game, like Magic the Gathering, not an MMORPG. Your character classes are like the color of cards (skills/spells) you can use, making your deck (choosing which combination of skills to bring for each mission) and using those skills at the appropriate moment during the battle is what the game is about. Would you ask WotC to increase the hits from 20 to 40? The same way, the level cap should stay at 20.
Why do people play MtG over and over? To ultimately prove that your deck is superior your friends' and to try different combinations of colors and cards. Guild Wars will be played over and over to prove that your character is the best and to try different combinations of classes and spells. And when you think you've tried them all, they'll come out with an expansion that will make everybody rethink their strategies and try new stuff.

Enjoy!

Bone_White_Haze · May 04, 2005, 07:53 PM // 19:53

>You guys are either missed my point completely, or you simply can't comprehend how a week old game can get stale without changes.

Understand perfectly, simply do not agree. There is a difference.

Stale--if you need items to make a game not-stale for you, then you're in the wrong game. Shrug, don't know what else to tell you. Get what fun you can out of your forty bucks and move on; it's STILL cheap entertainment, even if a week is all you can get from it.

Ashock · May 04, 2005, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bone_White_Haze

Stale--if you need items to make a game not-stale for you, then you're in the wrong game. Shrug, don't know what else to tell you. Get what fun you can out of your forty bucks and move on; it's STILL cheap entertainment, even if a week is all you can get from it.

Bleh, you say you understand but don't agree, yet you are not understanding me either. I did not say that I need items to make a game not-stale for me. I said that after playing the game for *several months*, a game needs something to keep it from getting stale. I did not say after a *week*, in fact I stated that I am having fun right now as is. I am looking toward the future, based on an extensive Action-RPG gaming experience, not on an euphoric feeling at playing a brand new game like most of you are doing.

Bleh, whatever.

-A

Nicholai Phoenix · May 04, 2005, 11:17 PM // 23:17

I think this game is fine as is, and if I do get a little bored, then I will wait for an expension.

As for more rare weapons, I could care less, yeah maybe yellow and whatever color weapon could use a little extra spice to the way they look.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bstripp

Have your flaming blade of doom

During one of the betas I found a sword that I thought you couldn't get.
At the time I got it, it was good did 6-9 damage, but it also gave me a health degeneration rate of 3... and 3 health per hit, this was a yellow item by the way. Later on I found better swords and by better I mean it did more then 6-9 damage, this sword was the Dragon Sword...
for those who don't know it looked EXACTLY like the sword prince rurik has... I was so happy when it droped

but then was sad when my char was wiped and lost it

Was I the only one to find this sword?

Kalnaur · May 05, 2005, 12:13 AM // 00:13

So, the game is based on skill. If you use your skill to get an item from a quest requiring massive amounts of adventuring (across, say the whole world), then would it really be so unbalanced? I mean, such a unique item would be so hard with the current play mode to get that farming it would be too much work for most people to care.

I think there are items that are "high level" items. However, if your problem is not being able to change your newbie item for a month, that may be something to worry about. If not changing it for more than a couple months, (say half a year) is your ideal though, know that there are a myriad of players who are fans of the game, but are open to changes they see as crippling their enjoyment of the game in question.

(Note: these comparisons are overstated for reasons of comparison and should in no way be construed by either fan-boy GW fans or fan-boy WoW fans as supporting their view whole-heartedly. (Kalnaur (hereafter refered to as "the poster") does not claim that this post truly represents his complete thought on items and reserves the right to change his post to further explain, or his alter/explain his opinion at any time. The poster wishes all other members of this forum to know that there is no request, implied or stated, in this post to insult, berate, or otherwise sully the poster's experience with previous games.)

Bone_White_Haze · May 05, 2005, 01:32 PM // 13:32

>So, the game is based on skill. If you use your skill to get an item from a quest requiring massive amounts of adventuring (across, say the whole world), then would it really be so unbalanced? I mean, such a unique item would be so hard with the current play mode to get that farming it would be too much work for most people to care.

I just think a lot of this line of thought is people unwilling to give up the classic MMO. Consider how they keep you investing your money month after month. It's really a pretty simple, classic design:

Must get level (ding). Must find new item (ding). Must find stuff to make new item (ding). Must get to new area (ding). Must fight new monster (ding). Must be unique. Must be different. Must be an individual who stands out (ding ding ding).

Push the feeder bar, out comes a treat. It's a trained Pavlovian reflex in standard MMO design.

But now you come to a game where the goal is to get your TEAM to the top. Promote your guild, hit the top of the ladder. No one will remember your (individual) character unless he's part of that top team, or the top ten, or whatever. We do not NEED a feeder-bar, there is no monthly fee to entice you into giving up month after month. You hit the 'top' in a week or two, then there really not much more in the way of goodies to get.

And you're still looking for the feeder-bar. How can I feed my individual ego? Must have unique stuff!

The question you should be asking is: How can I get my guild to the top of the ladder? (Us Us Us, not Me Me Me)

So again, we're going to come around to people who can adjust their mindset to leave standard MMO design behind, and those who cannot. If you cannot, you will positively be happier in another game. Absolutely.

Pevil Lihatuh · May 05, 2005, 08:13 PM // 20:13

just on the point of the game getting stale... people, you're forgetting; expansions every 6 months that are *in theory* gonna add on basically the original game in terms of amount of content. I dont think THAT is gonna get boring.

not only that but until recently, i used to play Ultima Online on a free shard. Now they have artifacts on there (your 'rare' items if you will); both armour and weapons. The problem was, the guy running the shard made it too easy to get the artifacts. So of course you got campers (i know that can't happen in this but you can still just keep going through areas) that would sit by the one guy who gave artis, and within a week, some 'noob' with less fighting skills than you would be kicking your ass in pvp, simply because they had +10 to str and +8 to health regen with other stupidly overpowered bonuses. Where's the point in that? I hated hunting monsters with them because i felt like i was just being towed around to look pretty instead of help deal out damage. And PvP was pointless because you'd die in 3 hits.

I also love finding cool new weapons and stuff. But i have tons of games for that: Diablo, Sacred, Divinity, PSO and loads of others. So why do i need another? I've never been interested in PvP simply coz of the item imbalance, but this is the first game where I actually want to give it a go. If they introduce uber-weaps though, there goes PvP out the window for me.